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Sophie Bennett from Marketing By Sophie shares why small business owners, especially those with a product or visual services need to start Pinterest marketing…
I learned a ton from Sophie on the power of Pinterest. It’s a little known but highly effective way of marketing for any small online business!
In This Pinterest Marketing Episode…
- Little known secret see why Pinterest ranks so high as one of the top search engines on the planet today.
- Why Pinterest marketing is so effective for small businesses trying to fight against the big brands.
- How you can reach millions of customers ready to buy and without any paid online advertising!
- The reason you’re missing out on sales if you think Instagram and Pinterest are equals…
Plus more… so grab a coffee, listen in and stay tuned!
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Top Resources Mentioned In This Episode
Follow Marketing by Sophie on Instagram for all your Pinterest Marketing tips and advice.
Register for the Pinterest Marketing Workshop on 13th July 2021!
Read Sophie’s blog post on the attention economy and learn how that can impact your online marketing strategies on Instagram and Pinterest.
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Podcast Episode Transcript
Aaron Henriques: [00:00:00] So today we're going to be talking about everything pinterest marketing and joined by Sophie Bennett from Marketing By Sophie. Hello, Sophie.
[00:00:09] Sophie a funny voice at the moment because of certain problems recently. I don't know if you want to share that Sophie, but yeah.
[00:00:17] Sophie Bennett: [00:00:17] I've fairly recently had COVID so I'm still slowly getting my voice back, but feeling a lot better now.
[00:00:27] Aaron Henriques: [00:00:27] Yeah. But it's, it's good that , your voice is at least I can hear you now.
[00:00:30] So now that that's, so Sophie, what I want to do is I want to start off really finding out a bit more about. Because I think there's some people out there that would be really inspired by what you're doing. You know, particularly very young people who are looking at starting up themselves. So if you wouldn't mind, just tell me a bit about yourself and your background and your upbringing.
[00:00:50] Sophie Bennett: [00:00:50] Yeah. So I graduated from university last year. I was what they call one of the great COVID graduates. I had a grad scheme with Santander. And it got canceled as many of the grad schemes did. In March, actually, a lot of us were just wiped out before, even our first day at work. And it was graduating into a situation where it looked very unlikely that you work and they get a job, or it would be very, very competitive to get a job, regardless of how well you did.
[00:01:22]And your degree or what experience you had. And I remember seeing sat in my uni room about to move out and I realised I really need money. Basically. I really need to live. I need to pay to eat that sort of thing. And I thought, well, I can't get a job. So I might as well just make my own job, sure you could do that?
[00:01:47] And that's what I said, yeah. And so that's when I started doing small freelance contracts. So I was doing contracts off of Upwork and often Fiverr just with different businesses, have different themes and everything like that, just to make money to sort of live on. And eventually I realised that I really enjoyed Instagram and Pinterest.
[00:02:13] And I was gradually learning more and more about those two platforms and learning about how useful they are to then promote your business online and what you can leverage from those two platforms. And then the interest for my niche, which is health and wellness came from, I have always been involved in sort of sports and fitness.
[00:02:35] Yeah. A general interest in that sort of area was playing competitive basketball from the age of 10, up until 22. And also alongside running a business. I also trained to be a personal trainer. I'm doing my level three at the moment. So it just all sort of intertwines and make sense to fit into that genuine niche of things.
[00:02:57]But yeah, my upbringing I'm nationally from the UK. So British nationality, everything like that. But I was born in Brunei and then moved to the US and predominantly grew up in the Netherlands for 10 years. After that, before coming to university in the UK, where I went to university of Southampton and did a marketing BSC.
[00:03:27] Aaron Henriques: [00:03:27] Well-traveled. Okay. So you did, you did a marketing BSA at Southampton. And how relevant do you see that degree now that you started your training? Because it's one thing that I did wonder about sort of like marketing degrees is if the syllabus can actually keep up with the speed of change of like online marketing techniques, how did you find it?
[00:03:49]Sophie Bennett: [00:03:49] I think. Okay. So marketing as a specialism or profession obviously changes pretty much. You could say weekly, in some cases it depends what sector you're looking at and what function you're looking at, but it could change monthly, weekly, especially with COVID. We see things change in marketing.
[00:04:10] Sometimes daily almost, but in terms of the degree program, it taught you the fundamentals that you really needed to know. So the baseline general theories that people had come up with consumer behavior theories and understanding those sort of core That like background topics that then you can go on to apply real life versions too.
[00:04:33] And I think without knowing those fundamentals, I wouldn't be able to do the work that I currently do now. Only because what I prefer to do with my clients is do theory back work. So I'd like to do a lot of strategic and theory backed work, which then focuses on sort of your macro environment. Generally what is going on in the consumer's life at that time.
[00:04:56] And I'm talking about sort of society, politics, that sort of thing. Cause people forget that that's so important when it comes to. Running a business and your marketing strategy is all well and good, obviously knowing how to use. So like the Instagram algorithm, how to have a Pinterest strategy, that's all very important.
[00:05:14] And you definitely need to have that nailed that at the same time, you need to remember that there is an outside world and what happening in the outside world does impact what your consumers are going to day. So it's having those two things sort of intertwined. And I think the degree program in that sense has really helped with that because it gives you a much more holistic and broader view as to what marketing generally speaking is.
[00:05:42] Right. And then you can then go into specialized further after that, through your own experience, work experience other online courses, that sort of thing. Okay, fine.
[00:05:51] Aaron Henriques: [00:05:51] And have you ever run a business before? Like so you've only got, you've got your business now is Marketing By Sophie. Have you ever done anything in the past, even if it's like, you know, buying and selling sweets in the playground or?
[00:06:01]Sophie Bennett: [00:06:01] No, I don't think so. Trying to think of the top of my head. No. I've worked in house, the marketing before, so I've worked. As a marketing executive and marketing assistant for other companies and sort of run. In some cases I was the marketing department because they were very small business, but in other cases, it's been working in a team and working sort of in a synergy between other different marketing professionals and everything like that.
[00:06:29] So I've done in-house stuff, but then Marketing By Sophie sort of grew starting from getting those small freelance contracts from different other businesses that just needed something done, I guess, to pull them to expand their bottom line further and to start growing their own businesses. And I thought eventually, like, surely if you take that and sort of flip it on its head in a sort of way, I.
[00:06:59] Can become one of the people that then takes people off of Upwork instead of being the people who go to others.
[00:07:10] Aaron Henriques: [00:07:10] Yeah. Yeah. That makes complete sense. Yeah. So when did you actually start it then? When did you start Marketing By Sophie?
[00:07:16]Sophie Bennett: [00:07:16] So I started in June last year and that was with doing the small contracts.
[00:07:22]Then I started doing it properly. In about January this year, this year.
[00:07:29] Aaron Henriques: [00:07:29] Okay. So you're about six, six months in, in, into your, into your sort of journey at the moment. Okay. And have you had help getting started at all? Anyone sort of given you a hand, any sort of silent partners in the background helping you out, but they're not putting their face out there?
[00:07:45] Sophie Bennett: [00:07:45] Yeah. I've had a business coach which has been amazing. She's amazing Lauren. Lauren Lepley you might've heard of her own clubhouse. She is incredible and yeah. Okay. Honestly, incredible, really, really helpful. And I'm pretty sure I'd be down in a ditch somewhere without her. No, she's been very helpful with just all kinds of business things, really.
[00:08:08] So not only the generic sort of how to run a business. Because, I mean, I'm what, so I'm 23. When you go into running a business, no one teaches you. You need to sign up to HMRC, you have to pay tax, you have to do, you know, you should probably have insurance, like all of these sort of things. None of that . So it was really helpful having someone who was like, okay, first of all, you need to go and do all these things to make sure you don't get in trouble.
[00:08:39] And then on top of that, she sort of. Listens to the struggles of being a solopreneur. You get some really, really good days and some really big highs, but naturally there are some not so good days and you feel quite alone with it. So she's brilliant to go to about those things. She has so much experience herself that she's sort of like that.
[00:09:01] When this happens, you should probably give this a go or maybe let's try this approach instead, or something like that. And she gives some really good sort of stepping stones to growing a business that way. Yeah.
[00:09:13] Aaron Henriques: [00:09:13] I think it's pretty valuable. Isn't it having someone, if you don't have a partnership, you start it up on your own.
[00:09:19] It's good to have someone there that you can sort of bounce off of and exchange ideas with really, isn't it, right?
[00:09:25] Sophie Bennett: [00:09:25] Yeah. That's really, yeah. That's really helpful. And then I'm still. Studying at Southampton university as well. And they have a enterprise. So they call it the student enterprise team and they're there to help students who start their businesses on their own by giving them that little bit of guidance if they ever need it.
[00:09:47] And they sort of support the students through their studies, but also those who are trying to sort of make something of themselves whilst at university that, that sort of external. Sub-team within the university,that are there to sort of try and provide some kind of support where they can, whether that's sort of financial funding or whether that's, you know, short meetings with other sort of business coaches within the university that may be, can answer any questions you have that sort of thing.
[00:10:19] So they're very helpful as well, but yeah, the combination of how it has been great, it has been so helpful. And yeah, I don't think I would be where I am now without either party in January.
[00:10:36] Aaron Henriques: [00:10:36] Is it much easier or harder than you thought it would be to get started out?
[00:10:46] Sophie Bennett: [00:10:46] I think it it's why I expected it would be, but I didn't expect, how many bumps in the road. I think there would be with running a business because you hear all of these sort of myths, I suppose, online where it's sort of like, oh, become a six figure business in 24 days,
[00:11:09] the internet obviously builds up this sort of dream that you can go and do it. And naturally some people do, some people do manage to do that. And that's absolutely amazing. I think it's going into running a business and realizing like, oh, okay, this isn't going to be multi-millionaire in a month, it's going to be consistent work really hard grafting and really putting in the effort and, and making sure you're passionate about what it is you do, because you have to enjoy the process at the same time, because otherwise then why are you doing it really in the first place.
[00:11:43] Aaron Henriques: [00:11:43] Yeah, I think that's something that I find a lot with people is, you know, when people have no idea to when they've never done it before. When they do see these stories or, you know, people promoting, zero to six figures in like six weeks. They, you know, they just think that, yeah, right.
[00:11:58] I'm going to go and throw up a website and then, you know, they might spend even a, they might even spend a ton of money on getting a website. Right. And then what they'll do is they'll then have this launch day all prepared and they're gonna expect like thousands of people to suddenly just flood there.
[00:12:15] And then when they get no one, apart from that their mum and dad. A bit like us on Club House right now. We, you know, you get, you get you, you know what I mean? You know, it's, it's a lot harder than I think a lot of people realise. Okay. So where are you trying to get to sort of longer term what's your sort of vision with your business Marketing By Sophie? And is there something else in the future that you're looking at there?
[00:12:36]Sophie Bennett: [00:12:36] So I'm kind of stuck at the moment between two sort of directions with it. If COVID, wasn't a thing. If it, if life was just normal, I would love to be able to be one of those people who goes traveling and can work from sort of from their laptop and be able to get that sort of life experience and early whilst I'm still young.
[00:12:58] Yeah. Do the whole lets go traveling, but also be able to do all of my business stuff and keep that running and keep that growing online. But also with respect to that, there is this whole coronavirus situation and not the world is unlikely to be vaccinated entirely by January next year.
[00:13:19]The other approach is to keep growing business just sort of strategically on it and in steps and gradually be able to take on other freelances or other sort of marketing executives within the whole Marketing By Sophie. But then naturally there would probably have to be a rebrand when that step eventually comes around, because it wouldn't be by me anymore.
[00:13:45] Yeah. And I, yeah, so I wouldn't want. Clients at that point to come in and expect to be working with me, whereas perhaps they may be working with an executive or they may be working with someone else. So when that point eventually comes around, there would probably be a change in name and there would be a whole strategy launch behind that.
[00:14:05] But at the moment, I'm quite happy just doing it on my own, even though it is a lot of work, I do really enjoy it. I'm one of those people who. I like having 50 things or something going on at the same time, I sort of thrive in that sort of environment. And I somehow I don't even know how I do it. I somehow managed to stay motivated.
[00:14:27] Aaron Henriques: [00:14:27] Yeah. It's fantastic. You're doing that. And uni at the same time and you know, it's a lot to do. Okay. So with the business, then how long did it take you to make any money at all?
[00:14:43] Sophie Bennett: [00:14:43] So my first Upwork contract was in July last year, and that was something as small as making Canva graphics, for his blogs. So he wrote blogs and I just created little images on them that would aid his sort of SEO and the meta tagging and all that sort of stuff. But my first proper client was in August where I did a lot of Pinterest work for her.
[00:15:18] And gradually I gained other clients or through word of mouth. I gained one of my current long-standing clients in October last year. And I still work with them now. So that's coming up to what, nearly a year almost if you, yeah, I still work with them. Absolutely lovely people, but yeah. Then yeah, just gradually as people come through, clubhouse has been a massive help in that regard.
[00:15:45] I guess it just an additional marketing sort of funnel, if you will. And it's very helpful because it's a platform where you realise that the people you're speaking to are actual people. So you can hear the voice. It's a form of networking in that sense, but then you all automatically sort of be able to build that sort of reputation and trust through the platform.
[00:16:05] And with that that's really helped with yes. Gaining clients, but also just networking with people, having new opportunities, being able to be part of things that you wouldn't have been able to be part of before. It's kind of accelerated the process of gaining a community that you otherwise would have probably had to have attended like six, seven networking events in person prior to.
[00:16:33] Aaron Henriques: [00:16:33] All of the world, you know, get literally from everywhere. And for anyone who doesn't know, clubhouse is . Clubhouse is an audio app. It's audio, social media. So everyone's in a room and people can go on stage and you know, sort of give them. Share their views, ask questions or whatever.
[00:16:50] And there's people, literally some real, you know, real famous people. And there isn't, it. It's like, it's insane. It's like everyone and their dog across the world seems to be on clubhouse at the moment. And if you're not on it, I don't know why you're not on it. You know, asked to start or someone to invite you because I it's incredible.
[00:17:06] The amount of people I've, I've met. You know, come across you at all. There's no reason why I would have done if I ended up in for clubhouse and a tremendous amount of people. So yeah, it's, it's fantastic. In that regard now, we've, we've your clients that you've had, have you had any have been like super difficult clients to work with or maybe any that you just couldn't no matter what you tried, you just couldn't get any traction for their business?
[00:17:33] Sophie Bennett: [00:17:33] No, I've always managed to get traction in times of being there growing a following or their posts getting seen, or the sort of impressions of their posts being seen more. But what I always say to the clients that I start working with, and it's just a sort of general fact of life, but I think if you don't work in social media, you sometimes don't clock.
[00:17:58] It's a thing it's not a one month turnaround fixed. You're not going to hire a social media manager and they're going to make you thousands within a month. Like amazing if they can. And if you have managed to do that, then you know, hats off to you. You've done an incredible job, but I always say to my clients expect to start seeing results.
[00:18:21] If you have made a brand new social media page, you know, within three to six months, And that's from being consistent weekly. That's from putting the effort in weekly and implementing strategies that then work, I have had it before where I've spoken to people and said like, oh, we've done two weeks of posting. How come I've not made any sales? And it's just sort of like, I wish it worked that way.
[00:18:48] Aaron Henriques: [00:18:48] I have these arguments, not arguments, but discussions with some of my clients for SEO, it's the same similar sort of principle. It's organic, isn't it? That's the point of it. And they, we live in this on demand culture where people expect like instant, you know, they want to put up a couple of posts and now they want to have 20,000 followers and, you know, be making millions of pounds, you know, it's set sort of saying their expectations. Isn't it? It's. Quite challenging in that, in that respect?
[00:19:14] Sophie Bennett: [00:19:14] I think the problem is it does revert back to the sort of online myths, if you will. So the whole zero to six figures thing that is the same with social media and SEO, they do say, oh, if you post five times a week and you add these things into your posts.
[00:19:35] I can guarantee you're going to get 29 clients or something like that. You get people who do say that. And it's possible. It's not impossible, but there are very particular targets that you need to be achieving in order for that to be possible. And that usually happens very far down the line that doesn't happen. Instantly. And it takes a lot of consecutive work to get there rather than, yeah. Yeah, as you say, like I sort of magic wand suddenly you've got an additional 29 clients.
[00:20:08] Aaron Henriques: [00:20:08] It just doesn't work. When I was looking at you, your, your social media profile. One of the, one of the things that really sort of caught my eye was you kept focussing on Pinterest marketing.
[00:20:20] Right? And I've seen lots of posts from you about Pinterest and it's one of those things that I've never really got it.. You know, I've, I've just, I just don't get it. I've apparently I've got an account I went on today and I was logged in somehow. I mean, this is a brand new laptop. I've had it a few weeks and God knows how, how that's happened.
[00:20:40] But yeah, I mean, I've, I've been reading stuff about it and I think I've seen on some of your posts potentially that it's like the third or the fourth biggest search engine.
[00:20:50] Sophie Bennett: [00:20:50] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Third biggest search engine before Google and YouTube.
[00:20:58] Aaron Henriques: [00:20:58] Okay. So tell me, you know, for anyone who doesn't understand it, because for me, I sort of have always thought that people use Pinterest and the only people I've ever seen use Pinterest personally, are people who've been looking like they're renovating a house and they're trying to get design ideas, of how they're going to decorate the house, how, whatever they're going to put into it. So for anyone who doesn't understand or who doesn't even know what Pinterest is, you know, what is it and why would you recommend that we as business owners use it?
[00:21:32] Sophie Bennett: [00:21:32] So Pinterest itself is described as a bit like a visual discovery search engine. So it's an aesthetically pleasing platform. And you go on there. Yeah, people do go on there for hobbies to get sort of recipe, ideas, inspiration, all of that sort of thing. Absolutely true. But the way it works with business owners, if you take those components of Pinterest and translate that into what would then be business content, you then can build, your community on Pinterest.
[00:22:11] So what I mean by that is, cause that was quite vague. So generally it's aesthetically pleasing, visually informative, inspirational, and it drives a form of SEO because it's realistically an image-based search engine in itself. So if only went to make a Pinterest post say. So you can upload informative content on Pinterest, but people will only see it in what they call a pinor the sort of tablet like image images, or you scroll through.
[00:22:56] So what's going to make me stop, look at that visual image and intake that information it's different than Instagram in the sense of Instagram, you're just scrolling through and. An image that you would generally just stop, maybe double tap and move on. Pinterest. You need to grab that attention of what they're going to get out of that pin.
[00:23:16] And if it's something people go on there to try and achieve usually a certain goal. So if I'm going on there as even as myself on, I want to know more about SEO, so I can maybe type SEO tips into the Pinterest search. There'd be a bunch of different images that, which may have been like a bold text, like SEO tips, 1, 2, 3, 4, and I'd get a lot of information in one go in that image.
[00:23:45] And I could maybe then pin it to keep it for later or to add it to a board that I had on my account, which then either engages my account with their account. And it sort of works that way, but yeah. Then going on from that, if you translate that into different business types, you can create your own sort of form of content pillars from those four key strategies within Pinterest.
[00:24:10] And one thing that Pinterest have actually said fairly recently is that they found 8 out of 10 Pinterest users when they did a survey, went onto Pinterest and they found. Generally that those users, 80% of users had a positive feeling. When they went on there, they either felt like uplifted. They spent, they felt inspired.
[00:24:33] They felt motivated, that sort of thing. So then when you're going to make content, which then promotes your business, if you then realise, okay, the people who are going on here, Are going to have that sort of positive feeling. You then translate that into the content you're putting out. You're putting out high energy content through a visual format.
[00:24:59]Yeah, they're all differences between the content you would put out on Pinterest versus other platforms. You can't just repurpose content. You can't just rehash and re. Like repost content because you see. Yeah, because you do see some people who think like, oh, I've made this content for Instagram. Let me just blast it across Facebook and Pinterest and LinkedIn. It does it doesn't look like that. The behavior of Pinterest is different to the users that are on Instagram. So, yeah.
[00:25:33] Aaron Henriques: [00:25:33] I mean, but my concern as a business owner, right. So if I was, you know, someone, you or another company came to me and was promoted Pinterest marketing, because I don't understand it. Right? And that's obviously I've got the view that I've, well, I've known people to use it for. I mean, I don't think I've ever used it. Well, obviously I have, because I've got an account apparently, but I don't know how that happened. But my concern would be. You know, if I'm putting up these pins and I'm spending money on marketing, like someone like yourself as I spend money with Marketing By Sophie to put these pins up and these people then start looking at these pins.
[00:26:09]And actually before I move on to that, the next bit I was going to say, is it, one is one pin, one image, or was one pin like a group of images, like a story?
[00:26:17]Sophie Bennett: [00:26:17] One pin usually is one image. There are ways that you can correlate them together. But often is just one image or one video or one. Okay.
[00:26:31] Aaron Henriques: [00:26:31] That's what I thought it might be. So if they're typing something into, into into the search engine, so you're saying it's the third biggest in the world, which is, which is brilliant. I didn't know that. That's amazing. So if the typing something into that, and then they're seeing all these different pins from lots of different people.
[00:26:47] What is it that's going to really get them to come and buy from me in that instance?
[00:26:54] Sophie Bennett: [00:26:54] So the way people do it is the things you put out. I'm trying to think of the the word, yeah. With that content that you're putting out, you often then link it to your website or you link it to a specific page. Within your website.
[00:27:15] And that's part of when you set up your business account on Pinterest, you have to install different coding integrations with in Pinterest, linking to your websites. That will be the Pinterest tag and the base code as well. Once you have those too. Yeah, it tracks everything. So not only then do you know how people are behaving when they go and pinch us through, into your website?
[00:27:38] You also are driving that traffic, which then allows people to get in contact with you. After what I always say is to try and limit that customer journey down to three actions. If you can, because sometimes it's not possible, but if you can get it, so people land on the pen, click through to your website and maybe then can make a booking or send you an email or that sort of thing.
[00:28:05] That's then how you would get those conversions through from a service-based business perspective. If you are a product based Business or even a service-based business that's perhaps selling an ebook or selling a course of some kind or somehow translating that service into a product.
[00:28:25] You can also do it. So then you have event codes linked to that particular product. And with that, you can track the number of say, like add to basket conversions. Okay, just sort of general bounce rate of people coming on to that website and things like that. And you can tailor each pin that you're putting out to what it is you want to sort of achieve in terms of your website or your sales funnel. Okay. In that regard..
[00:28:59] Aaron Henriques: [00:28:59] Yeah. Okay. So it's got a whole analytics. So you can then use to say, I had no idea about this at all. So I, you know, I'm pretty tech savvy, Sophie, you know, my industry and I, I didn't know anything like that about Pinterest. So that, that's really interesting, particularly as I imagine, there's probably a ton of people that don't know about this stuff.
[00:29:19] So there's probably a ton of opportunity for people to actually stand out on there versus other platforms like Facebook, everyone knows about to everyone advertise and Instagram is exactly the same. So on Pinterest, then what's like the typical behavior from the consumer side of things, then like, how are they using the platform?
[00:29:37]You know, you've already explained how they come to land on your site. I didn't realise that you could even put links in there. So there you go. It's another thing. Yeah. But how are they typically using the platform? So when they're seeing the grid of pins. Is it like a favorite thing that, that pin sort of thing as they're going along, so they're never actually looking at detail at the individual pin or is it like they open up one and look at that and then move on?
[00:30:01]Sophie Bennett: [00:30:01] So the general, like Pinterest interface, when you land on your homepage, I guess you could call it a newsfeed to draw the similarities. You'll have a whole grid of little different pins full next to each other. So a lot of different images kind of like brick work almost. And you can do the same as any other platform.
[00:30:26] You can scroll past all of these little squares, if you want to. If you're just on that to. I don't know to pass your day.. You can also obviously then press on individual pins or click on individual pins and get the information that's within that pin. So for example, in terms of if someone's posting how to cook a certain recipe, that pin may be a photo of the final product, and then you press on the pin to get what the ingredients are and what the method is to cook that dish that you've just seen in that case, then it may be if you are a service provider or a business, and you trying to drive traffic to a blog post that you've just put up onto your website, you then may make a square, which has the title. So I did one, which was about the attention economy. And COVID-19, which is marketing theory and how it's been affected by COVID-19.
[00:31:20] So then I made a square, which had the blog title was sort of within my branding colors was ascetically pleasing. You then could press on that pin and it had the link, which would then redirect them to where the full blog post was. And it also allows you to put in a small caption of just a brief description as to what it is that they'd will be redirected to.
[00:31:47] Okay. So they're all those different methods of using Pinterest. And also naturally, if you are looking for something specific, then that's where the whole sort of SEO dynamic comes in because you can search keywords. And that's kind of how some posts are picked up as well as by through the content writing that you're putting in.
[00:32:09] So the copywriting you sort of integrate. Such engine keywords, similar to how you would guess do SEO. I'm not an SEO expert, but yeah. How you would integrate keywords, picks up the same way that, or similarly to how say Google might do. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:32:24] Aaron Henriques: [00:32:24] Okay. That, that, that is, that is interesting. I'm surprised. Actually, I, I I was reading a blog by HootSweet from, from this year and. One of the stats that I read from there is that they've got 459 million active monthly users. And 95% of those 459 million users are looking for unbranded products and ideas. So they're not looking for like the big brands, the big organizations, the big products and services out there.
[00:32:58] You know, there's the smaller businesses out there who, who can provide them with, you know, products and services and ideas and inspiration. So I just found that as something that is, is really, really important for particularly small business owners to be considering Pinterest, because if you've got 95% of such a huge audience searching for the smaller brands, and you're not there, that's bit of a problem for them. Isn't it?
[00:33:25] Sophie Bennett: [00:33:25] Yeah, and also another sort of numbers statistic is if you decide to engage in paid ads within Pinterest, you can reach over 200 million people from that paid ad. So naturally that does depend on. How much you're willing to fund the paid ad, how much time you're willing to let that ad run for that.
[00:33:53] You've got those independent variables, but just that number that you could possibly reach over 200 million you'd want for a small business. If you put enough funding strategically into it, that's a huge audience that you otherwise wouldn't have reached. One story that I do. It's a bit of a funny twist, but it makes sense.
[00:34:12]Cause people say to me like, oh, I'm on Instagram. They're going to be the same users on Pinterest. Definitely not true. There'll be a completely, there will be an overlap most certainly. Cause you get some people who are across all social media platforms as much like myself, but there are people who are on Pinterest and aren't on Instagram.
[00:34:33] And the story I tell is my brother. He hates Instagram. Absolutely hates it. He has an account, barely uses the doesn't scroll through anything like that, but he is on Pinterest every day. He loves it. He's on it all the time. He's picked up like web designers from there who he's worked with. He's got obviously ideas for his house.
[00:34:58] He's moving into his bought furniture off there, or from the providers that he's found through Pinterest, anything like that. So not just is an already sort of a very tiny case study of one user that's on Pinterest and isn't on Instagram. So yeah, when you compare that for a marketing strategies or in an overarching sense, if you include both platforms, both Instagram and Pinterest, the audience that you then speak to the magnitude of that.
[00:35:33] I want to say doubles, but I don't actually know the proper magnitude of it, but you know, it gets a lot bigger and there are a lot more different personalities and different consumer interests between both platforms.
[00:35:49] Aaron Henriques: [00:35:49] So, so how have you done paid, paid campaigns on Pinterest and sort of seeing how that compares with like a paid campaign on Facebook or Instagram in terms of the amount of users, particularly that you'd potentially reach?
[00:36:03] Sophie Bennett: [00:36:03] I haven't done that many only because I, with my clients, I always focus on organic work. So even though I have done a couple sort of site Instagram paid ads, it's generally not what I do with clients. We always focus on the organic one thing I can talk about though, when in comparison between Instagram and Pinterest, I would say the insights you get from Pinterest ads, is so much more detailed than what you get from Instagram ads.
[00:36:36] So the understanding behind how that ad is performed and perhaps what effect that then has that, that has then had on. So if your website traffic and more of a general. Overall marketing impact. You get a lot more information from Pinterest than you do from Instagram. Yeah, so, yeah.
[00:37:02]Aaron Henriques: [00:37:02] I think this is going to be interesting to people because every, like I said earlier, everyone knows about Facebook. Everyone knows about Instagram advertising. Everyone knows about Google ads. Okay. But definitely everyone doesn't know about Pinterest. I mean like one, I didn't understand how it worked full stop, but didn't know they have analytics. And I had no idea that they had like a, a paid ad version as well, like that. I was actually gonna ask you that about, around that and yeah, that, that's insane that the fact is I'm going to have to reconsider. What, how am I not? Yeah. So with that in mind, then who is Pinterest really good for? For marketing, be it organic or paid? What industries are they?
[00:37:42]Sophie Bennett: [00:37:42] So. One that is very good. Are people who are perhaps website designers? I've like looked through a lot of different website designers on Pinterest because I'm considering rehashing my own website, but no, there's a lot of different sort of Squarespace experts on there who are maybe selling like Squarespace templates.
[00:38:04] If you just don't have the time to go. And. On your own. It's a good place to publish sort of client work that you've done. If you are say, for example, social media manager like myself, or if you are graphic designer. Anything that's just generally like a visual content, I would say you can probably perform quite well on Pinterest from a service based perspective.
[00:38:30] Aaron Henriques: [00:38:30] I'm guessing stores like, you know, if the setting boss, you know, if they're selling home products and stuff?
[00:38:36] Sophie Bennett: [00:38:36] That's going to be absolutely. Yeah. I was about to say if you're a product based business, I don't know why you're not on the Yeah, free. Or even if you are trying to sell, because you can integrate that sort of purchase function within Pinterest and how much something costs.
[00:38:55] So if I went on there and I wanted to buy a table, for example, I could probably scroll through Pinterest, look at a table, go, oh, I really like that table. And that will have the website link to where I could then go purchase that table. So.
[00:39:11] Aaron Henriques: [00:39:11] And is there anyone one that would be good for?
[00:39:13]Sophie Bennett: [00:39:13] So I actually had an interesting conversation the other day and for once I was actually stumped, so I would love it if anyone actually knew the answer, please message me. He was a dentist and he asked me as a dentist, could I use Pinterest? And I just sort of. Well, I mean, I think so. I don't, I don't see why not, because as long as you have a website that you can drive traffic to, and you have objectives that you want to achieve from that platform, you can't just use the platform.
[00:39:45] You have to have an idea as to what you want to get out of it, what your strategy will be and the steps that you'll take in order to get there. But he said to me, you know, would it work? And I sort of thought, I mean, I suppose so. Because on their Instagram page, they posted pictures of sort of teeth transformations and sort of the sort of side surgery and things behind that.
[00:40:09] So I thought, you know, probably you probably could because you could create the same form of content pillars, content strategy. Drive traffic as you do through Pinterest, but yeah, it stumped me a little bit.
[00:40:26] Aaron Henriques: [00:40:26] You get about professional services like that, like, so let's just firm's accounting, stuff like that.
[00:40:31] Would they would, would they have a place on there to, to be showcasing what they do through Pinterest? You mentioned earlier, like SEO, you could be putting like a board with stats in or something like that. Where they could show that. I mean, is that something they could possibly do to use it?
[00:40:53] Sophie Bennett: [00:40:53] This is the thing I think everyone will have that place on Pinterest.
[00:41:01] It's just, some would probably perform better than others. And that goes the same for every platform. I would say like the majority of businesses could use every platform, but there'll be some which is just better suited to what it is they do than others. So for example, if you're a solicitor, you probably could use Pinterest, but I wouldn't use it as your top social media platform that you give all your attention to.
[00:41:30] That makes sense. Yeah. So it's just being strategic in that way of it. If you don't have the time. To be managing two to three social media platforms. And nor do you have the funding or the sort of finances to then outsource that work to a social media manager or anything like that? You then obviously they need to be strategic as to what is it that's worth your time?
[00:41:54]Putting the effort out in that sense, but something like a solicitor I'd focus obviously on something perhaps more like Facebook marketing. But if you had the time and the resources to do it, I don't see why you wouldn't be on all of all platforms across the board. It's just, normally people don't have that time to do that. I mean, I wish I did.
[00:42:19] Aaron Henriques: [00:42:19] But yeah, I understand that. Okay. But certainly anyone who's visual, a visual prototypes, physical products and stuff that needs to be on there. Okay. If you was going to say, if there's one thing that you could say to someone who now they've heard about Pinterest today, and they reckon that they've got, you know, a products and services that they can show to showcase on Pinterest to give it a try out.
[00:42:48] What one thing would you say for them to do today to be able to get themselves on Pinterest and start actually getting some people looking at their pins?
[00:42:59]Sophie Bennett: [00:42:59] Firstly, you just make the account because it does take slightly longer than if you set up an Instagram account or anything like that. There are a lot more components to it than you think.
[00:43:12] I think when you first go to sign up a business account. So yeah, sign up, set up your account so that it reflects your branding. You written out your bio, so. It explains what it is you do. And it's perhaps converting in terms of the copywriting of that, but then also before you post anything. And that's just my personal opinion.
[00:43:33] Some people may see different is to have your content strategy sorted out beforehand because you do get some, again, this is just my personal opinion. You will get people who would just think it's better to post anything and everything than to not post anything for a while. When realistically, if you have your content strategy, you know that what you're putting out is going to be valuable and is going to work, but then that platform, you might as well take that time because there's no rush as such.
[00:44:03] You're not trying to save the world tomorrow. You're going to try and build a community on a platform in a progressive way. So that would be my biggest tip is set it all up, get it all, ready to go get all your code integration sorted within your website, whether that's made on WordPress, Squarespace, whatever Wix, that sort of thing that you want to use, getting that all set up and ready to go and then figure out, okay, what are my objectives?
[00:44:31] What is my content strategy? And what are we going to try and promote onto this platform? And then once that is all sorted out and you started making the content that reflects that strategy and pushing it out, hopefully then you'll start to see the results that you are looking for in order to achieve your targets,
[00:44:51] Aaron Henriques: [00:44:51] right. Yeah. Okay. I asked that I've asked you to really help people. You know, cause like I say, people have no idea sometimes, you know, you don't know what you don't know. There's a ton of stuff I've learned today that I didn't know about Pinterest has been around for years. Hasn't it is platform it's been around for years.
[00:45:07] So I mean, I was, I was looking at an article from 2012 about Pinterest, so earlier on, so yeah, it's definitely been around a while now. So if you're thinking about online entrepreneurs now, And if they're looking at sort of marketing on Pinterest in one of those articles I read is a more recent one.
[00:45:25] Is that 85% of all of the searches done on Pinterest are on mobile. That's probably not surprising because the pins are sort of like mobile phone sort of shaped like a story shape. So online entrepreneurs today, that's something where they really need to be making sure that their websites are sort of mobile responsive.
[00:45:48] I mean, just anyone, even if you're not using Pinterest, it should be mobile responsive because that's the way it's going. People predominantly using mobile now. But I mean, is there, what would you say to, if you come across any of your clients or anything like that, where perhaps they've had to fix their, their website, first of all, to, to be able to cope with implementing the Pinterest marketing strategies that you're going to put in?
[00:46:12] Sophie Bennett: [00:46:12] Not necessarily when I have started liking with them. As you say, most people, when they set up a website, they have made it so that it's suitable to mobile. Obviously then it is very crucial to have that navigation within the mobile setup working smoothly, and you're not getting the sort of 404 error pages popping up, or one image is blown up on an iPhone, but then it's fine.
[00:46:37] Yeah. So obviously, yeah, definitely have that all set up and making sure it works smoothly in terms of mobile navigation. But I would assume, as you say, in this day and age of how things progress within digital marketing, the majority of businesses, do you have that sorted out prior? So I've not come across anyone who hasn't had that sorted out before working with me, but.
[00:47:01]I was going to, no, I was going to say something. So anyway, so the only thing I would, one thing that actually might be an interesting perspective on the whole thing. So I mentioned earlier, I wrote a blog post on something called be attention economy, which is, I'll explain it very in short. It's a, generally a theory that's come up.
[00:47:24] In the last sort of year or so. And it's been brought mainly to attention due to the rise of COVID and how that's affected consumer behavior. But one of the key factors is that we are the most distracted generation that there ever has been. And what I mean by that is I will be answering my emails on my laptop whilst having the TV on and whilst replying to my friend on my phone, all at exactly the same time.
[00:47:51] So then as a marketer, or even as a business owner, you then think right, for linking it to something like Pinterest, how am I going to grab the attention of that one user who's maybe using three, four devices at exactly the same time. What is going to drive their attention from whatever else is they're doing to what is I'm pointing, pushing out on this platform?
[00:48:15]And with that obviously has then come around sort of unique marketing strategies and changes in marketing strategies. So we're seeing the introduction of sort of short form videos which has recently been pushed out majorly and Instagram. And it wouldn't surprise me if it gradually reaches Pinterest later on, just because all the platforms tend to try and catch up with each other eventually. And whatever functions that it is that they're putting out.
[00:48:41]Aaron Henriques: [00:48:41] What is a short form video?
[00:48:44] Sophie Bennett: [00:48:44] So something like a Tik TOK video Instagram reel, are generally, like short, very short 3 to 5 seconds.
[00:48:54] Aaron Henriques: [00:48:54] Three to five? Okay.
[00:48:56] Sophie Bennett: [00:48:56] Yeah. They ended up, well, yeah, very, very short video. Wow. Which well, for Instagram they've come out and said it has to have an entertainment value.
[00:49:04]With Pinterest, obviously they've not really come out and said anything cause it hasn't reached there yet. But I imagine eventually it will probably come to Pinterest.
[00:49:13] Aaron Henriques: [00:49:13] I have seen a few videos on YouTube recently where people have put shorts on it. Not shorts, not like shorts you wear, they've written "shorts" on the title.
[00:49:24] And I've only been like 15 seconds long. So that's, that's what it is. Basically. They're they're short, really short videos? Okay. For our increasingly, decreasing attention span. So if anyone's been listening to this for nearly an hour now you're doing well because attention spans are not there anymore. Are they?
[00:49:43] Sophie Bennett: [00:49:43] So this is the thing I'm, I'm guilty of it. I'll be texting my phone whilst doing my emails while I'm listening to the news. While talking to my friend who I live with, like, we are so good at multitasking now, and we don't really realise it. When it comes to something like business promotion or your marketing strategy, it's sort of exactly that, it's right, how are we going to make sure that this one person doesn't decide to go make a cup of tea instead of.
[00:50:16]Aaron Henriques: [00:50:16] Yeah, that's it. I fully get that. So so we'll, we'll wrap up now, but if you could give for someone who starts not their business, All right. If you can give one hard lesson that you've learned that you wish someone had told you before you started, what would that be?
[00:50:35] Sophie Bennett: [00:50:35] Before I started Marketing By Sophie?
[00:50:38] Aaron Henriques: [00:50:38] Before you started Marketing By Sophie. Yeah.
[00:50:41] Sophie Bennett: [00:50:41] Yeah. Be prepared to not like succeed all the time. Be prepared to, realise that there will be bumps in the road and there will be times where things go wrong. It isn't all sunshine and rainbows as the internet does like to promote it might be. But it is a lot of fun and you meet a lot of people who are so supportive and lovely.
[00:51:09] And I mean, I've never met you in person, but yeah, exactly. But yeah, I think that would be my one main thing is it will be difficult, but you will have a really good time.
[00:51:23] Aaron Henriques: [00:51:23] Excellent. Well, thank you so much for sharing information about, you know, Pinterest marketing and that, because it I've learned a lot from it.
[00:51:30] I had no idea I'm going to sit down at the moment. I'm currently reviewing my own marketing sort of strategy going forward and also have a new business that I'm starting up. So I'm going to have a good think about what we've discussed today and probably a hop on a call with you at some point to get a deeper dive, but, but see, we know.
[00:51:49] Yep. Well, so obvious, but we know that you've got an event coming up soon in July. Can you tell people what it's about and how they can get involved?
[00:51:57] Sophie Bennett: [00:51:57] Yeah, so it will be a virtual event on July 13th 2021 and it will be a interactive workshop for beginners on Pinterest. So begin to use this to Pinterest, but it will be for business owners.
[00:52:10] So it will be along the lines of what we've discussed today, but obviously a much deeper dive. Into the specifics and sort of by the end of it, the general idea is you'll have the stepping stones to have your Pinterest set up and ready to go. And for you to be ready to start your Pinterest marketing journey, if you will post workshops.
[00:52:34] So there'll be a lot of interactive activities. There'll be a lot of information. So be there ready with a pen because you'll want to take it all down. And.
[00:52:44] Aaron Henriques: [00:52:44] Not as to what they, and time is that?
[00:52:45]Sophie Bennett: [00:52:45] July the 13th at 6pm BST. And how
[00:52:48] Aaron Henriques: [00:52:48] can they, how can anyone listening now register to,
[00:52:51]Sophie Bennett: [00:52:51] Either find me on my Instagram marketing by Sophie and I can send them the link or there is on Eventbrite as well.
[00:53:01]If you just search Marketing By Sophie on there, I'll probably come up with the Pinterest workshop.
[00:53:06] Aaron Henriques: [00:53:06] So is Instagram the best way for people to get in contact with you in general?
[00:53:10] Sophie Bennett: [00:53:10] Yeah. Instagram or email [email protected]
[00:53:17] Aaron Henriques: [00:53:17] Well, thank you very much Sophie, it's been, it's been inspiring to see, to learn a bit about Pinterest.
[00:53:23] There's lots of other stats that I did learn that we've not discussed about today, but it's it is something that I think, if your product based, you've got visual, get it on there now. If you need help someone like like yourself, Sophie can definitely sort of help you out. And yeah. So go over to Marketing By Sophie on Instagram.
[00:53:41]Give her a follow up. Get in touch, you know, see if you can get in touch with the event, if you're past the date or the events and see this is going on a podcast. So if you pass the date of the event, still getting touched because I'm sure there'll be ways that you'll be able to help them out going forward with that sort of information.
[00:53:56] Okay, fantastic. So thank you very much, Sophie. And yeah, too. Next time. We're out.
[00:54:02]So I hope that was really valuable to you. And you've learned a lot about Pinterest and as always, if you want to get in touch with me, you can do so. Go on Instagram, follow me on Instagram first. Then you can send me a DM. If you don't follow me first the DM's get filtered out. So follow me on Instagram. It's @AaronHenray.
[00:54:23] And while you're there. Why don't you give this podcast a review? Review Sophie review me, give us a five star review and actually just write a few comments about what you found most useful, what you maybe didn't understand or know about before that you've learned about this, or perhaps there's something else that you know, that wasn't covered in here.
[00:54:47] Put that into the review and your podcast host that you're listening to now.
[00:54:52]If you have any suggestions about any future episodes, get in contact with me on Instagram, AaronHenray.
[00:54:59]And until next time. Thank you very much for listening.
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